Is the latest development in the discussion of the comments for the previous article I posted, The Malaysia Now. Strizzt and Viceice were both agreeing that there should be a standard system to follow in charging clients for a web project. However, given some thought there’ll always be pros and cons to a great idea. Let’s have a look at this.
The standardize system would have to be run by an organization of website designers, developers, as well as bosses from companies. The first problem establishing such an organization, is electing the board on it. There are a lot of good people and yet there are those who are just as corrupted and hungry for power or money.
The system will definetely help out freelancers starting out in the field. They need not be cowards anymore and feel the clients should walys have the higher authority. They won’t be boggled by the project quotes since there’ll be a foundation for them to weight their own price. Now, all this is really sounding favourable but there’s one critical flaw.
Because we have designers/developers on different levels or experience, a metrics need to be acquired. The other problem I also realized is that the metrics won’t be able to help fresh good designers/developers place themselves on an appropriate level. And if you looked at the system from all angles, the system would also need an administrative branch. Why? Well, someone has to handle all the submissions to be compared on the metrics. :)
Does the organization or standardizing web project cost still sound like a bad idea? Well, it’s not because ideas evolve through time and this one just needs to be thought of from wider angles including from the government perspective. I’m very sure Malaysia will get there in 5-10 years.
However, I shan’t leave would-be freelancers hanging and gripping their balls/boobs in fright. I’m going to leave you some advice that has worked for me. Here it is:
The project doesn’t just involve you(designer) alone. You need to consider aspects from yourself and the client. You don’t disrespect your spouses in a relationship. Instead, you try to understand and work it out. The web project you get is a relationship established between you and the client. Try your best to get a healthy price from the project by breaking it down to the client so they can understand. Worst case scenarios, you don’t buy them a ring but provide them earrings. ;)
Hope this post has been inspirational for some as well as somewhat educational.
Well, we have 2 systems to use to prevent abuse.
1) A very democratic system where the EXCO has very limited powers. They can’t make new rules or amend the party charter. Their role is limited to making and vetting proposals, strictly administrative stuff. The rules and schedules are passed by a majority vote by all members.
It’s a very troublesome system, but the point of a real democracy is that we argue until we can nolonger argue and we come to a compremise everybody can live with.
It’s ideal for the small man, but big shots with egos (i.e Tan Sri we know who) will hate it because they have no power.
2) By some miracle get a Royal Charter or get chartered by Act of Parliment. This is a double edge sword as while the rules of association are codified in law and if anyone tries any nonsense he gets into deep shit, the flip side is it gets very political and open to the shit that comes with politics.
Admittedly, it will be a hassle to set up a board that will decide on the system. A lot of things need to be taken into consideration – level of experience, preferred cost, members of the board, etc. Still, that doesn’t mean we should shy away from that. Once the logistics of it is worked out, perhaps the industry would improve considerably?
An example: There are a few grades for journalists (I-III, with III being the lowest, and with the least experience). The salary differs from one grade to another.
Anyhow, I think it would be nice to hear views from the ones who are well-regarded in the industry – after all, they’ve been in this field for a longer time, and there might be something worth sharing on this issue. Something that we don’t yet know. :)
Let’s see, there was once an era when doXob was the place to be for designers. Now, since I last visited it’s a community that is slowly depleting in its interest. I’m very sure some seniors still check in and out out of it. Even for the organization such as DigitalMalaya being run by Muid doesn’t have the publicity it should be garnering.
Both the community forum and DigitalMalaya were really a strong idea to start out the organization we speak now but I guess they missed something somewhere.
Anyway, I know I might not be as experienced as some but I dare rate myself as someone who’s almost experienced the same hardships as them. That’s why in my upcoming major revamp, it won’t be about the design but more of the growing idea planned for the next coming 5-10 years.
It sounds really far fetched and believe me, I’m also not sure how far it’ll take off. However, I’m not deterring myself since I’ve got nothing really to lose and it’s to help bring back the market we once spawned. :)
Read this and the earlier post you put up on this subject.
It sounds like you’re proposing somthing like a union of (free-lance) web designers. You set a standardised terms and conditions (including minimum price) for work done by members, and in return you have a minimum set of standards that all have to adhere to. If a customer is dissatisfied, they can complain to the union. If a customer doesn’t pay a member who has delivered work, the union can sue the customer on behalf of the member.
If that sounds too complicated, then what you want is just a public marketplace where people put up their services and prices next to each other. Like a pasar, customer picks and chooses the designer that they like. All the prices are there for comparison. A bit more chaotic, but the prices will adjust themselves so that they are competitive.
Personally, I’ve charged RM1500 just for coding, domain registration, some copy writing, hosting, email setup and one year’s maintenance (adding new material, etc.). Design was another cost again, done by somebody else (that was like a thousand again as well). So, there are people out there who are willing to pay for a website.
Well, I wasn’t the one who proposed the idea. My commenters did and I liked the idea as well had my POV on it. :)
It wasn’t to say there aren’t clients who’ll pay good prices. This post was actually addressing one of the methods that could be done in rebuilding the spoiled market. I didn’t think about the union suing the companies and I thank you for sharing that. But don’t you think, in order to have such power, you’d need government help?
I don’t think the marketplace would work. Reasons are that prices will still remain low and won’t be increased. So when you mention prices will adjust themselves, I beg to differ because most clients want to save a buck instead of focusing realistically on their website development.
Viceice mentioned before that if the ‘Chinaman’ mentally can’t be resolved, the market would still be rotting.
Sounds like a pretty good idea. But how do you actually standardise the cost for a project?
It may be easier to standardise pricings for static pages. However web projects often need dynamic pages. Its much harder to decide on a standardised pricing scheme for requirements that will be totally different between projects. Like two companies wanting newsletter scripts for their site would be differ in what they require.
I think instead of having a “standard” pricing scheme for web projects, having an Organisation that handles web standards for Malaysian web developers would be a better idea. Such an organisation would probably have to be government controlled to have any effect.
Web Design Companies and freelancers alike can submit their work to be certified to meet the standards set. This way companies will know that they are hiring someone of some level of skill and merit. It would also help ensure that websites of the future conform to standards
Then if a company thinks that the price for their web project is too high, they can bring it up with the organisation to see if the price is fair. Freelancers can do the same if they are being forced to work for a low price.
An organisation at such a level would definetely be helpful to the designers/developers seeing how this discussion is going. Though with the government having not much involvement in arts, they’re just too busy solving other political agendas. sigh..
they may not be into “arts”. But remember, we are into IT :P Websites are part of IT, and developing a successful website is in some respects an engineering discipline.
A good post Danny. Regarding to your post on DMP, it’s truly a one-man show and as for me, gaining more commissioned project unable me to spear my time concentrating on DMP. Having said that DMP is never passive. We took a lot of effort to target working ground in order to share our creative and experience to the most important target, which is the students. We achieved working with Creative Commons and Adobe so far to gain more interest in new media, and that is why, this year DMP is an official media supporter for Adobe Design Achievement Awards.
I just hope out there, there will be people like me to build a portal or a positive collective to contribute and support the community and industry, rather to just win a local award without helping out the youngsters out there to grow for a better achievement in design ideology. We need people who knows about the industry. Knows how much income generated in yearly basis, who are the top design studios and houses, who had set a scale to contribute, and those who put passion in order to move the industry forward, without back-stabbing and talking crap or bitching about a person nor designer who had made his way up in order to help others.
The choice is up to those who posses the great leadership, passion and determination to help, not just talk or write without taking action into it.
Regards,
Muid
A well-written reply indeed, Moed. :)
And I’m glad to know DMP is one of the main media people for Adobe now. But what I’d really like to see later is DMP getting the designers into Adobe conferences and etc – not just to promote Adobe but to get designers together and experience it.
Many in Malaysia want to attend but can’t afford to attend. So I hope DMP and Adobe may change this in future.