This discussion started from the previous Some Malaysians are Shameless but it wasn’t complete since I didn’t have the website URL of the finished project. But thanks to Tiger, he managed to dig back up the website from his history folder.
The discussion I wanted done here earlier was to briefly talk about the fair or unfair pricing for the website; www.property98.com
This itself already is free publicity for the owner but no matter, because what we’re going to discuss is the pricing of this website work.
So here’s the big question.
Would you pay RM1000 for a website like this?
I’m prepared to argue the amount of work (if any) concerning more than 10 pages of HTML done. But wouldn’t you believe for RM1000, you would be able to invest in a much better design but still maintain the feel of this website?
In my humble opinion (IMHO), this website is worth only RM300 and only RM500 plus website hosting. Why I think it’s only worth that much?
- NO design.
- NO layout.
- NO strategy.
- NO call to actions.
As some clients or designers have said it before, “this is work even my grandson or child could do.”
What do you think would be a fair price for such work if you placed yourself in shoes of a student or a professional?
If it was 10 pages, similar to the screenshot, I’d say RM 100-200. RM 300 is overboard..
Website pricings are definitely subjective. I’ve seen designs worst then that but fetch at a much higher price. It’s not always about how we (designers) want it to be its more of fulfilling the client’s needs and wants. I know bla bla designers have responsibility of educating the clients and etc, but sometimes you just want to make your (designers) life easy. Rather then fighting for your ideas and working late altering this and that, why not just do something following what your client wants.
Do you even need to pay for that?
You could probably use google pages or something and come up with a nicer looking page :P
That page looks like it came out from the 1990s
MJ, that’s why I asked what’ll your price be if you placed yourself in the shoes of a student or a designer?
As a working person, if I were paid RM1000 for such a project I’d be very happy and so would any person who works merely for money.
But my conscience would bug me from the start saying that it’s not fair for the client because there’s so much more you offer to make the website better even for RM1000.
If I really wanted to make easy money, I might as well sell all clients in Malaysia ready made websites and go about pulling a fast one how great and fast we can finish their website without giving a damn about morals.
Danny, you do have some really good points there but when you have a base of 100 designs in a month trust me you won’t have enough time to manage and see everything through as how you it want to.
Back to topic definitely as a designer I would not agree that the pricing of 1k is fair to the client as like what you said “this work even my grandson or child could do†but lets put this is an different perspective if you are a student/ freelance designer a client comes up to you saying that I am going to pay you $1k and I want the website to look exactly like this shit website. Are you going to question the client?
In the design world it’s not always about moral values and how ethical designers want to be. If the designer above manage to get $1k for this project then I would like to congratulate him on the job well done for the good marketing skills. For argument sake, if I can persuade the client that the design above is worth $15k are you (the designers) going to argue with me that I overcharge the client and say that I can do it for less the that amount?
Designers are like sales person, you may have poor designing skills but when you are excellent in selling, everything is different you can make the ugliest design in the world look pretty and nice.
“As a working person, if I were paid RM1000 for such a project I’d be very happy and so would any person who works merely for money. But my conscience would bug me from the start saying that it’s not fair for the client because there’s so much more you offer to make the website better even for RM1000.â€Â
From this sentence alone it shows how young and experience you are. Young bloods are definitely the drive of design industry as they want everything to be peachy and heaven alike. It’s good to hear that you prefer quality rather then money but I do hope this motivation will stay with you throughout your entire life and NO I am not being sarcastic.
Frankly, for RM1,000, I’d do a site like that.
Maybe the guy needed it in 1-2 days, so that’s why he’s prepared to offer more. If getting the site online quickly is what’s valuable to you, you have to pay.
I think that talking about ‘work appreciation’ or morals is missing the point. When we quote clients a price, the price is not justified by the client appreciating our work. The price is justified by HOW MUCH VALUE WE CONTRIBUTE to the project.
Web designers are SERVICE PROVIDERS. If the client VALUES your service, they will pay what they think it is worth. If you take on this project for example, you should show the value you bring to the project by making suggestions on how to improve that site, even if the client said he wanted it ‘exactly like http://www.example.com‘.
Of course, you should also be professional, provide proper documentation like invoices and proposals, be ready to answer questions, and maybe even do a few extra things like help him set up the company’s email accounts.
All the above show that you add VALUE to the client’s business. If I were the client, I wouldn’t mind paying extra for someone that I have a good relationship with.
At the end of the day, everything boils down to doing business. The skills you have (no matter how good) are only a means to that business, but business is the point.
Another example, the Apple iPod costs more than competing players with more features, but it enjoys 80% market share. That’s because the ‘extras’ that come with the iPod are more valuable than the price.
All that being said, you still need to deliver a good product. Delivering a good product equals good value. In the case you quoted, you should darn well suggest improvements to the site and even educate the client. My two cents.
MJ, thanks for complimenting that we’re really a couple of people who aren’t so much about the money. We should have a page for testimonials. :)
David, selling will always be something that everyone needs to do. And I admit I might’ve overlooked the factor that the client might’ve needed the job done on such notice. But I honestly don’t find it an excuse to give sh*tty work and would’ve therefore ask the client to at least give a week.
In Malaysia, everything is “it’s just business” that it’s totally ruining every factor involved in arts.
Danny, I commmend you for being an idealist. Your attitude is indeed refreshing to see. Maybe running the rat race for almost 2 years has turned me into a cynic.
Unfortunately, the reality of doing business is that everything boils down to money. Being idealistic as you are, I guess I’m a bit worried that some nasty client will take advantage of your forthrightness and generosity. In doing business, you need to watch out for yourself too. I had to find that out the hard way :P
I am certainly not advocating delivering shitty work. Delivering good work is all part of the value a service provider brings. And from what you’ve written on this blog, it’s clear that you have a lot to offer to anyone who takes you on.
Keep up your principles and your high standards, and keep on doing what you’re doing. And thanks for always highlighting topics like this for discussion. Cheers.
Yeaps an excellent topic indeed.
Unfornutately, the conservative Malaysian are now even more worried of coming forth and admitting how much their work might cost after what has happened here I suppose.
However, I’ve an idea for a new category to dedicate and discuss more topics for us to evaluate the price of a website with everyone who’s shared their best interest here especially MJ whom I’ve not seen around much. Laugh Out Loud! (LOL)
I am not a very good designer but i still think that the design is no where near RM1k. :D
what ?? RM300 ?? i would pay absolutely nothing for that website..
Hi All….I am the web designer for the website mentioned above.
Most of you all were saying that It’s not justified to charged RM1k just for the work.
Then may I know how much will u charge for the 10+ pages of html + 1 page of php at http://www.property98.com/advertise_with_us.php which include database design + teaching the client how to self maintain his website by himself + 3 times free consultation (say additional 3 times of meet up….3 hours each session)
I dunno about others….but I feel that RM1k just the right price….please comment….thanks!
To designers, they said that they’d not pay or maybe RM300.
To programmers, they said that it shouldn’t cost even RM1k but maybe RM500 or less.
To sales or business oriented employees, they justify that it could cost that much if it was work rushed.
So I can’t say for all that the price they say are average. However, I can vouch that RM1k for the work done isn’t right. The most I’d ask is RM500.
The 10 pages and 1 page of php can be done in 3 days maximum. As for teaching the client, how many hours did u spend teaching him? And as for the consultation, what was consulted upon? Only the contract or the discussion of how this project should be handled and how his website could be better improved let alone differentiate himself from the website he wanted it to look exactly alike?
I’ve got a question, if he wasn’t your friend, then how much would you be charging him?